frozenfoxtale ([info]frozenfoxtale) wrote,
@ 2008-10-12 09:42:00
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National Coming Out Day
... is October 11th. It's actually October 12th here right now. But it's Oct 11th in the States - which is the nation in question. So! Many of you already know this, but in the spirit of Coming Out Day:

My name is Rebecca Crane. I am queer and polyamorous.

How 'bout you?



I've actually been coming out a lot lately, especially in regards to being poly, because I've been meeting so many new people. Both over Winfly and now with the beginning of Mainbody - station population has exploded to about 800 in the last week - I have found myself explaining my "situation" more often than usual. As always, some people are more receptive than others.

The other day, somebody posted this list in a community I read: How to Be a Poly-Friendly Monogamous Person. There are similar lists and discussions out there re: other marginalized groups, and I've found them to be some of the most helpful tools in my own struggles to be a better ally. But it's the first time I've ever seen this type of articulated write-up about how to be a Poly Ally. It made me so happy to see it, because it reminded me that there are allies out there. :)

It always helps to remember that you have a support network. Coming out can be exhausting. And even if you've done it a million times, it can still be scary. (Case in point: I'm a little nervous about posting this today because I know my parents will read it.) I'm lucky in that many of my friends, both monogamous and otherwise, already follow the guidelines in this list naturally, simply because they respect and love me. I also know that not everybody is so lucky.

If you want to support the people in your life and community who may not be monogamous (and remember you won't always know who they are), check out the rest of that post and the comments on it. The list is below the cut:


How to Be a Polyamorous Ally
by [info]inki

1) Remember that polyamorous people are pretty much like monogamous people, only not monogamous. Being polyamorous doesn't mean that they have particular physical features, hobbies, or sexualities. Don't generalize about poly people. Don't assume that you know jack about polyamory - unless you've been doing it, you really don't. Even if you have tried nonmonogamy at some point, it tends to go differently for different people, so your experience is probably going to be different than someone else's.

2) Don't assume poly people are sexually insatiable or even have a high sex drive. Some do, some don't.

3) Don't assume poly people are sluts or available. Do not assume that they have casual sex: some do, some don't. At the same time, if you have a problem with people who are slutty or have casual sex, recognize that you are prejudiced and get over it.

4) Do not assume that poly people are cheating or somehow hiding things from their partners. Chances are, they are not.

5) When someone tells you they are poly, do not assume that they are hitting on you. They are probably not. Do not assume they are available to date or sleep with you just because they're poly.

6) Don't date poly people unless you are at least willing to invest some serious time and energy (measured in years) into either a) becoming poly yourself or b) getting over jealousy enough so that they can date other people.

7) Do not start dating a poly (or really, any nonmonogamous) person with the assumption that once you and they fall in love, they'll be monogamous with you. They probably won't, and this leads to heartbreak on all sides. If a person says to you that they plan on being nonmonogamous indefinitely, believe them.

8) If you want to date someone in a monogamous manner, say so explicitly early in the relationship. Don't assume that because you slept together (moved in, met the parents, etc) that you must be monogamous now. You might be surprised by what assumptions they have been making about monogamy or the lack thereof.

9) When a poly person breaks up with one of their lovers, don't think that they should be fine because they still have others. It doesn't work like that, even when monogamous people do it.

10) When a poly person breaks up or has a bad relationship experience, do not tell them it is because polyamory doesn't work. Monogamous people break up all the time, but that doesn't prove that monogamy is doomed to failure. Similarly, if a poly person decides to become monogamous, don't assume that all poly people are just fooling themselves. Polyamory does work, just not for everyone.

11) Don't assume that jealousy makes polyamory impossible. Some people don't get jealous, and others get good at managing or deprogramming their jealousy.

12) Don't get defensive. Polyamorous people are not saying that monogamy is inferior. (Or if they are, they're wrong.) Don't say things like, "I could never do that, I just get too jealous". Saying such things makes you look insecure in your monogamy. If you find yourself getting defensive around polyamorous people, check yourself: maybe you are insecure in monogamy in some way.

13) Don't assume that if your partner/lover/spouse meets a poly person, they will suddenly be seduced by polyamory. If you are that insecure about your partner's monogamy, maybe you should work on your relationship with them.

14) Don't assume people you meet are monogamous. Given the rates of negotiated nonmonogamy and cheating, there's a really good chance that you're wrong.

15) If you meet someone who is dissatisfied with monogamy or having trouble with monogamy, mention polyamory (or other types of negotiated nonmonogamy) to them as a possibility. Lots of people become polyamorous later in life simply because they did not know it was a possibility when they were younger.

16) Question your own prejudices about which relationships are valuable and worthy of celebration. Do you consider nonmonogamous relationships to somehow be inferior or less loving? Do you assume that they are unstable, or always end quickly? Do you understand that commitment and monogamy are not the same thing?

17) Note when monogamous assumptions are built into books or media. Ask yourself questions like, "how would this romantic comedy be different if nonmonogamy was a possibility?".

18) Check out poly resources of various sorts: online, books, etc. This serves two purposes. Not only do you get to know better what it is like to be polyamorous, but many poly relationship techniques (like managing jealousy or learning to communicate better) are really helpful in monogamous relationships.

Also, here's GLAAD's very short and sweet list of ways to be an ally to LGBTQ people in your community: How to Be an Ally and a Friend. Most of these suggestions go equally well for any oppressed group, not just queer folks. Try Googling "how to be an ally" for even more.

And have a happy Coming Out Day!



(40 comments) - (Post a new comment)


[info]candent
2008-10-11 09:25 pm UTC (link)
My name is Jules and I am neither queer nor poly but I stand proudly with my queer brethren.

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[info]frozenfoxtale
2008-10-12 06:51 am UTC (link)
Awesome. We're glad to have you. :)

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[info]redstorm
2008-10-11 09:53 pm UTC (link)
I am straight but polyamorous.
Though not into the same gender personally, the whole poly thing does seem on par to me in a "coming out" sense as being gay. People do not understand, people get upset - my mother once told me that she wished I was gay rather than poly, coz then I'd at least be with one person. The multiple partner thing seemed to bug her.

I hang with an alternative crowd, most are gay, bi, poly or otherwise different. Thought I guess I gravitated to them, they are very different to the kind of (boring) people I grew up with.

There's my coming out ;)

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[info]frozenfoxtale
2008-10-12 07:08 am UTC (link)
Nods. There are definitely some parallels between being poly and being gay or having another non-normative sexual/relationship orientation - although, of course, each group deals with their own unique struggles as well. I'm sorry your mom said that to you, that's shitty. Many people do have trouble understanding, but at least the ones who care about us make an effort. :)

Glad you found people who you connect with. I hang with some 'alternative' folks as well as many who are not alternative at all, and I've been pleased to find that even among my 'square'-seeming friends, many are queer, poly, or different from the supposed "norm" in ways they may not even have a name for. A good reminder that you can't tell by looking at a person. ;)

Nice to know that a few other polyfolk are reading. I think we talked about it a little once before. :)

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[info]whthfck
2008-10-11 11:39 pm UTC (link)
I thought you just had a bf...

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[info]frozenfoxtale
2008-10-12 06:49 am UTC (link)
Nope, I've got two. :) Eric and August. You'll see both their names mentioned around here with fair frequency.

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[info]martianmoons
2008-10-12 12:40 am UTC (link)
My sister is gay and was in a poly relationship for awhile, but eventually that turned into a monogamous situation, and now she is married to her partner. So you are right, people should not stereotype, and being open minded about things I have found is always a good idea! :)

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[info]frozenfoxtale
2008-10-12 07:09 am UTC (link)
I agree. Congratulations to your sister! :)

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[info]kamo2paws
2008-10-12 01:06 am UTC (link)
WOW! I didn't know you were family! I don't celebrate coming out day myself only because I am 4 years into a wonderful relationship and everyone that means anything to me knows how the boat floats around here. As for the Poly part, I was 100% Monogamous in the past (failed) relationships and I realize now that we, like all other living creatures have wandering minds, impulsive instincts and a desire to experiment and try new things.. I think that most of the "cheating" that occurs is fueled by the adrenaline of trying to hide a dual life.. By forcing yourself and others to be monogamous it gives you plenty of room to desire change. This relationship started differently and although I would have never imagined myself happy in a Poly relationship is has lifted any subconscious insecurities about my mate.. 4 years later we could never live without each other and get to spice things up without hurting feelings or our relationship goals..

I am glad the little fox laying in the snow (icon) caught my attention long ago when I spotted your journal.. goes to show you never really know how much in common (or not!) you may have with others..

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[info]frozenfoxtale
2008-10-12 07:22 am UTC (link)
I had sort of guessed this about you. ;)

I don't believe that humans are naturally non-monogamous, that we all have an inborn instinct to want multiple partners, or to want our partners to have multiple partners (which is really what polyamory is about for me - not the having so much as the sharing). I don't necessarily believe that we're "naturally" anything - but even if we are, I do think that different people have different 'wiring'.

And for some people, monogamy may really be how they're wired. For example, one of my partners is very monogamous. I honestly believe that's just the way he is, and I love and respect it about him. (Although you can imagine that it makes things difficult between us occasionally, simply because we're so different on that point that it's hard for us to understand where each other is coming from sometimes. :/)

I do agree that trying to force yourself or anyone else into a mold that doesn't fit you/them, especially when it comes to intimate relationships, is dangerous and usually leads to heartbreak or worse. I'm glad to hear you've found a situation that works well for you. You sound very happy. :)

Glad you like the icons. One of the boys made them for me. ;)

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[info]kamo2paws
2008-10-12 08:34 am UTC (link)
Easy to spot eh? Yes, I don't hide much I suppose.

I was going to write a long winded reply on my studies of human relationships (psychology is a hobby of mine and trust me I KNOW i need to get out more :P) but we all share different experiences in relationships whether daily interactions, friends or intimate partners. I happen to be a part of a large subculture of folks that bend the rules of Taboo.. which also happens to be a heavily polyamorous society. Consequently for the past few years I have seldom made an effort to make friends outside of the subculture and have become accustomed to being a free spirit among open accepting arms.. Monogamy seems more of a rarity to me and although for those who are wired that way present a beautiful gift to each other I am always surprised to find monogamous couples that are genuinely content with their lifestyle. I can see how wanting your partner to have other lovers can be difficult but if you trust and love that person enough and they reciprocate then deep down you know they are yours and will always come home to you.

Because I happened to cross paths with that once special person that balances me out, I often am the person people turn to when they have relationship issues and seek genuine, unbiased help. Tonight, after reading some of the material for and against polyamory.. I can see that I am in fact much more biased than I imagined..something to tackle on a rainy day! Thanks for posting this ^..^

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[info]highlandcoo
2008-10-12 08:20 am UTC (link)
Im Jenny and I am gay, and it a 5 year monogemous relationship, even though I cant spell it! Im lucky that everyone around me is fine with me being gay, I can imagine that being Polly is even more difficult to describe to people and for them to be able to understand it.

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[info]frozenfoxtale
2008-10-12 11:11 am UTC (link)
Sweet. :) I love your icon. Michael Stipe is adorable (and also queer, although you probably knew that. ;) ) Thanks for commenting!

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[info]highlandcoo
2008-10-12 11:33 am UTC (link)
Yeah I knew that already. Its funny because I have been a fan of REM since I was really little, and when I saw them the first time he was so shy and now since he has come out he is a different person, hes so confident and its beautiful.

I have to say I love reading your journal and your stories. I have been ill for a very long time and find doing things very difficult. You seem to be able to do all the things that I would love to do like travel and work as a scientist and I really enjoy reading what you get up too and seeing what life is like in these places you visit :) x

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[info]frozenfoxtale
2008-10-12 01:34 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, I've seen them a couple of times in the past few years and he has such a stage presence. He's also totally manic, which is adorable. One of my partners has been a huge REM fan ever since he was a kid, so I really got into them through him - and then lured him into repeatedly watching Velvet Goldmine with me because Michael Stipe produced it. ;) I am endlessly impressed by how prolific and versatile an artist he is.

I'm honored that you get something out of reading my journal. :) Sometimes I sort of feel like, "Why am I still writing this?" but it's encouraging to know that it means something to someone out there. Thanks.

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[info]highlandcoo
2008-10-12 05:15 pm UTC (link)
I think he is absolutely beautiful and there is just something about him, that makes you not be able to take your eyes off him.

I really do enjoy reading about what your up too and im sure that there are many others who do the same. It has always been a dream of mine to work in Antarctia but I think I would now settle for just a visit! lol x

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[info]strangelover
2008-10-12 11:28 am UTC (link)
Queer and poly, but then you already knew that. *g*

Being openly bisexual is one thing, I've had little issue with that part of my life here (other than people falling over their own tongues when I'm out with a cute girl), but being openly poly is a whole other kettle of fish. Not only do I have my primary relationship belittled (you obviously don't really love each other, since jealousy = love), but people will be cool with things if they think I'm cheating on A-, but not cool with it if they realise he actually knows and likes the freedom we have. Go figure.

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[info]prexious
2008-10-12 12:20 pm UTC (link)
You go! It is awesome that you are open about it and willing to share your experiences. Thanks for the links, too. Lots of good infos!
*HUGS*

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[info]frozenfoxtale
2008-10-12 03:30 pm UTC (link)
Thanks Bex! I didn't even know you read my blog. :) Hope everything's going well in the new digs.

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[info]prexious
2008-10-14 05:45 am UTC (link)
heck yeah! you are always up to interesting things :) AND you are my other Rebecca, of course! I have a pipe dream of doing a stint down there so I can live vicariously thru you for a while, til I get it together myself! Rawk on, sista! *HUGS*

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[info]frozenfoxtale
2008-10-12 03:30 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, isn't that weird? It's not uncommon here either. Especially here, where so many people have "Ice wives" and various other affairs that cheating is practically expected, much less accepted.

I suspect the issue is that, in a certain way, cheating is considered part and parcel with normative monogamy - especially for men. I mean, something like 65% of men admit to having cheated on a partner. And "serial monogamy" just means starting a new relationship by cheating on the previous one. So people are generally somewhat empathetic with cheaters because, since it's seen as a normal if unpleasant part of many 'monogamous' relationships, we - as a culture - at least have a framework for understanding it. Most people certainly don't think you should cheat, but at the same time also believe that it takes a kind of superhuman effort or saintliness to never do it. And TV, romantic comedies, etc. teach us that there are all kinds of extenuating circumstances in which cheating is okay or even the best course of action. (At the same time teaching us that e.g. murdering your partner's lover (or calling them fifty times in the middle of the night and hanging up) is an excusable act.)

I think the existence of polyamory upsets some people more than cheating does, not because they are truly freaked out by the idea of having multiple partners - something which most everyone can imagine (except hardwired monogamous folks, and while I do believe such people exist and know some personally, I think they are far fewer in number than the number of people who are trying to be in monogamous relationships) - but because, while cheaters are breaking the rules of monogamy, polyamorists are simply throwing them out. This is a fundamentally different act and one that can make people feel uncomfortable, confused and threatened in ways that cheating typically doesn't - especially when they've never thought of those rules as rules before, but simply facts about The Way Things Are.

I could obviously write more about this but I should probably do some work. Suffice to say, I think other people being upset by your polyamory suggests that they're unsure about whether they're making the right choices in their lives and intimate relationships - an uncomfortable feeling that most people probably don't experience acutely very often. In the same way that homophobia is often an indication that someone is insecure about their sexuality (which is not the same thing as being gay - I think it's a myth that being homophobic automatically proves someone is secretly gay; I think what it shows is that the person is, on some level, suddenly considering a possibility (i.e. their own gayness) that never really occurred to them as a possibility before, and that's often terrifying - even though it's sometimes eventually freeing as well. Granted, pistol-whipping people because you're scared of yourself or trying to deny them marriage rights because you're afraid your marriage doesn't really mean anything is unforgivably fucked up.)

In my experience, people who are in a happy, mutually-supportive, committed monogamous relationship and truly feel that this person and this relationship is right for them don't get all up in your face about what they think is wrong with yours. (And just because someone isn't sure if monogamy is the right choice for them doesn't mean it's not. This isn't about whether people are "really" monogamous or poly or whatever or whether those categories even exist. It's about how much people really believe the things we tell ourselves about who we are.)

So, uh, there's my rambling off-the-cuff social psychology treatise. :P

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[info]kamo2paws
2008-10-15 05:35 am UTC (link)
I don't feel so bad about my ramble I was typing anymore :P

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[info]frozenfoxtale
2008-10-15 01:13 pm UTC (link)
Hehe. Brevity has never been my strong suit.

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[info]crm17
2008-11-11 10:01 pm UTC (link)
people will be cool with things if they think I'm cheating on A-, but not cool with it if they realise he actually knows and likes the freedom we have

What a striking observation.

It seems like being open, accepting, and happy would be the default setting. What in the hell happened to so many of our fellow travelers?

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[info]hermioneann
2008-10-12 01:06 pm UTC (link)
straight, and monogamy is what I want for myself and my partner, but everybody else can do what they want as long as they're not hurting anybody. Why do people seem to have such a hard time grasping that concept?

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[info]frozenfoxtale
2008-10-12 04:16 pm UTC (link)
Heh. See my above long and rambling comment reply. ;)

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[info]thejunebug
2008-10-12 01:55 pm UTC (link)
Congrats to you!!!

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[info]frozenfoxtale
2008-10-12 04:16 pm UTC (link)
Thanks. :)

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[info]bexmonster
2008-10-12 04:16 pm UTC (link)
I'm straight (very! I played with the idea of being sexually attracted to women, but I just can't deny how straight I am) And monogamous. When my husband and I were still dating and living in different countries we maintained an open door policy. It was put into practice only once for each of us and it didn't really work out well. Since we've been married neither of us has had any interest in being with other people. Honestly I don't think I have the energy to sustain an intimate relationship with more than one person and I admire anyone who can. I told my dad about our theoretically poly arrangement and he completely flipped out! He was completely disgusted and said some rather insulting things to me. Well, I dropped the subject and haven't spoken of it since. If he wants to be so closed minded and prejudiced he's not hurting anyone but himself.

Happy coming out day!

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[info]frozenfoxtale
2008-10-12 04:42 pm UTC (link)
I'm straight (very! I played with the idea of being sexually attracted to women, but I just can't deny how straight I am.)

Hehe. One of my favorite things anyone has ever said to me, from a girl I Wintered with: "Of course I've had sex with other women. How else would I know for sure I'm straight?"

When my husband and I were still dating and living in different countries we maintained an open door policy. It was put into practice only once for each of us and it didn't really work out well.

I think this is how many people first consider the idea of polyamory. Long-distance relationships are tough enough, much less long-distance exclusive relationships. But yeah, I think it works for some and not for others, sometimes it's a good temporary solution, sometimes it develops into something more, and sometimes it destroys the relationship. (Then again, I tend to figure that relationships which don't weather a period of time living apart probably didn't have much staying power in the first place.)

Honestly I don't think I have the energy to sustain an intimate relationship with more than one person and I admire anyone who can.

Heh. It is definitely a major commitment of time and energy. I appreciate it when people recognize that. Thanks. :)

I told my dad about our theoretically poly arrangement and he completely flipped out! He was completely disgusted and said some rather insulting things to me. Well, I dropped the subject and haven't spoken of it since.

That's so sad. I'm sorry. :( My Dad's opinion means so much to me, the thought of him ever being disgusted with me breaks my heart; it makes me want to give you a hug. I hate it when there are things about my life that I feel like I can't trust my family with - although there have always been and will probably always be a few; I think that's in the nature of family, most of them anyway.

Still, I've been lucky that my parents (and even my grandparents) have always been supportive of my choices - or at least of my right to make them, even if they are not thrilled with the actual choice itself. ;) I think they sometimes feel confused by me, and occasionally - especially when I was younger - they've tried to convince me that I don't really feel the way I think I feel. I got the "thinking she's bisexual is just a phase" thing for years. Lol. And now, honestly, I think they mostly just pretend it's not really happening. But they've never been insulting or judgemental - at least not to my face. ;) My Mom's even made the effort to learn a little about and get involved with the queer community in her area.

So I feel pretty blessed and I want to try and share that with the people around me. Thanks for your comment. I appreciate it. :)

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[info]aceofspades28
2008-10-12 05:33 pm UTC (link)
my name is abigail, and i am so queer.

national coming out day really makes me reflect on my identity and how it has changed in the last couple of years.

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[info]elfbiter
2008-10-12 08:14 pm UTC (link)
My name is Vesa and I am a Finnish pro-LGBT rights ally. I am a monogamous heterosexual male but as far as I am concerned, other ways are valid as well.

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[info]periwinklemist
2008-10-13 12:31 am UTC (link)
I am neither queer nor poly but stand by both, and love my friends who are either are both. Thanks for that list!

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[info]purrsikat
2008-10-13 05:41 am UTC (link)
That's a great list & outline & post generally. I wasn't going to comment because I don't feel that I have anything to add, but I decided to so that I could say thanks. :) I've often wondered about this kind of thing, for myself.. at least now that I know more about it (like.. polyamory has a name! :) I can keep it in mind & see where the currents take me. So, again, thanks. & congrats!

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Thanks
[info]navigator72
2008-10-13 09:26 am UTC (link)
Thanks. You are loved and cared about. A great deal of thinking and concern appear in your narrative and comments here. Can't say that I fully understand - does anyone ever about anyone else? But I do know that you are thoughtful and considerate in the way you approach important aspects of your life. Empathy has been a topic of considerable attention for me lately. This is a good area to "stand in another person's shoes" - with awareness and contemplation of what and how they feel. LY, Dad

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Re: Thanks
[info]punch_intheface
2008-10-13 01:35 pm UTC (link)
Thoughtfulness and consideration: two things that are partially innate character traits, but are also very much learned. Having read your blog on Obama's website (at Rebecca's suggestion), I have to say I admire your own thoughtfulness and consideration as well as your daughter's. Thank you for your studied consideration, Mr. Crane--we could certainly use more of it in this world!

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[info]lucyskydiamonds
2008-10-13 11:43 pm UTC (link)
I'm queer and in a monogamous relationship. My partner is also queer - I'm female, he is male. We did have a sit down monogamy vs. polyamory conversation when we started getting serious, since I was dating a few people casually at the same time.

It's going really well :).

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[info]tedrick_james
2008-10-14 09:50 am UTC (link)
Hehehe! Well, fair play to you :-)

I'm Ted - bisexual (well, probably closer to "pansexual," but I like the word bisexual better), FTM, and.... probably coming out as poly in not long. I just got out of a horrible, terrible open-but-antagonistic relationship, so I'm sort of able to step back and look at myself more clearly now.

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[info]pattinthehatt
2008-10-14 02:30 pm UTC (link)
I am not family, but because my closest friend in the world was an out and proud lesbian many people assumed I was. We always joked that I was just adopted.

The anniversary of Matthew Shepherd's death always makes me think of a young lady who worked at my grocery store. Shortly after the death she was wearing a name tag that said, "I am Matthew Shepherd." I remember thinking that we all should wear one of those, because any one of us could theoretically be singled out for what sets us apart from the purported "norm". At the time I was a very short, intelligent, morbidly obese woman who was given to occasionally giving other people what-for when I felt it was deserved. In the wrong circumstances any of those things could have put my life in danger. That's not in the least to down-play that others are in higher risk categories, it's just to say that nobody should feel like he/she couldn't have been in those shoes.

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[info]boucinoffdawall
2008-10-15 06:02 pm UTC (link)
A few things, I agree with many things said here. Congrats for feeling open enough to discuss it, everyone! I'm straight and married to a wonderful wife for a week shy of 8 months. I find myself frequently pitted between friends that feel that anything but the traditional model is wrong, and several that are in the minority. I've had sexual experiences with both genders, but in general, I have not had positive experiences with males. It "appears" to me that many times the non-traditional situations tend to involve some unhealthy family situations (abuse, absence, neglect, overcontrol, etc). When I was questioning my sexuality the most, it was when my relationship with my father was most tenuous. He worked a LOT. When he was home, it was a bit like walking on eggshells. We also have had a lot of positive experiences, however.

It's strange, how that worked for me. I felt like the more I wanted fatherly love, the more willing I was to look for it elsewhere. I'd say overall my relationship with my dad is great at this point, however. I think a lot of it was related to some male-dominance issues as well as me trying to establish myself as an adult. My mother has always been amazing. But I'm curious to see how many people who are (I know this isn't a PC term, but I grow tired of trying to "keep up" with political correctness) non-traditional in their sexuality have healthy relationships with both parents. So...any experiences insights into healthy relationships with parents?

I hear so many stories of people coming out and having terrible reactions from parents. What about positive relationships with parents?

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